Disappearing posts

[belgareth]

Hi everybody,

A few people have asked about posts that have vanished. There is nothing wrong with the forum, it is strictly the actions of either Bruce or one of the mods. If your's or somebody else's thread went away, it was for a good reason. Because of privacy concerns, we can't explain why in most casees and for that I am sorry. Those of you who know me know that I am very opposed to censorship and will not delete posts for political reasons. I don't even delete personal attacks directed at me. But there are times when we are going to delete posts. I apologize in advance if those posts are yours.

Belgareth

[franki]

And what about peachy's posts? They were not deleted, but not visible either?

[belgareth]

And what about peachy's posts? They were not deleted, but not visible either?
Franki,

As I said, if it went away it was done for a reason either by the mods or Bruce. That applies to Peachy's posts too. The exact reasons are not something I can discuss.

[DZorro]

Hi everybody,

A few people have asked about posts that have vanished. There is nothing wrong with the forum, it is strictly the actions of either Bruce or one of the mods. If your's or somebody else's thread went away, it was for a good reason. Because of privacy concerns, we can't explain why in most casees and for that I am sorry. Those of you who know me know that I am very opposed to censorship and will not delete posts for political reasons. I don't even delete personal attacks directed at me. But there are times when we are going to delete posts. I apologize in advance if those posts are yours.

Belgareth
Thanks for explanation. It was just weird to see post Vanished into thin air. Usually if posts are deleted you will still see the post but just the content deleted, but in this case entire posts just Dissapeared. So that's why i thought that maybe there was something wrong with the forum.



DZorro,

[Ash]

Lots of people here are getting a bit angry. It's obvious to many why some posts are removed. When I see one of mine deleted I know why it's happened. I haven't got a clue why some of the posts are getting removed though and neither do a lot of other people. It's like you're trying to turn the place into Disneyland or something. That's COOL if that's your plan. It's also COOL if you just want some of us to GO AWAY. What isn't cool is this arbitrary removal of posts by a moderator just cuz he felt like it. I expressed my concerns about this in Doc's Thread. There was talk of new rules being made up and posted. Did I miss the "New Rules" Thread? Cuz right now I have no idea what's acceptable and what isn't and, as I stated above, I'm not the only one.

[belgareth]

Lots of people here are getting a bit angry. It's obvious to many why some posts are removed. When I see one of mine deleted I know why it's happened. I haven't got a clue why some of the posts are getting removed though and neither do a lot of other people. It's like you're trying to turn the place into Disneyland or something. That's COOL if that's your plan. It's also COOL if you just want some of us to GO AWAY. What isn't cool is this arbitrary removal of posts by a moderator just cuz he felt like it. I expressed my concerns about this in Doc's Thread. There was talk of new rules being made up and posted. Did I miss the "New Rules" Thread? Cuz right now I have no idea what's acceptable and what isn't and, as I stated above, I'm not the only one.
There is nothing arbitrary about any of the actions taken. In general, there are several places to play and do pretty much what you want, within reason. There are some things that will not be allowed at all; for instance, personal attacks.

There were also a lot of people angry about their threads being hijacked. We lost many good posters for that. All we are really asking is that people follow a few simple courtesies. We are not trying to turn this into Disneyland anymore than some people are trying to turn it into a free for all.

[Elana]

In general, there are several places to play and do pretty much what you want, within reason.
Several threads in the humor section have been removed, including Dzorro's cartoon game about penguins. Isn't the humor section a place to play? :confused:

[belgareth]

Several threads in the humor section have been removed, including Dzorro's cartoon game about penguins. Isn't the humor section a place to play? :confused:
That one I can't answer because I wasn't involved.

[Ash]

I'm not trying to get in your face here Bel cuz I don't want to get banned and I actually like you personally...but that was a wonderful "non answer, answer". In your first post in this Thread you apologize in advance for removing some posts. To me there would be no apology necessary if there was a posted set of rules to go by. You break the rules you get deleted. No apology needed. The problem as I see it is without a set of stated rules ANYTHING you delete is an arbitrary deletion. That's an invitation for bad feelings all the way around for both Mod's and Members. It breeds resentment on both sides. This is not good!

[Numanoid]

Several threads in the humor section have been removed, including Dzorro's cartoon game about penguins. Isn't the humor section a place to play? :confused:I know why mine got deleted...:D .

I thought it was hilarious...after I nearly jumped out of my skin I couldn't stop laughing, but some people clearly didn't appreciate being startled like that. No biggie though.

[belgareth]

I'm not trying to get in your face here Bel cuz I don't want to get banned and I actually like you personally...but that was a wonderful "non answer, answer". In your first post in this Thread you apologize in advance for removing some posts. To me there would be no apology necessary if there was a posted set of rules to go by. You break the rules you get deleted. No apology needed. The problem as I see it is without a set of stated rules ANYTHING you delete is an arbitrary deletion. That's an invitation for bad feelings all the way around for both Mod's and Members. It breeds resentment on both sides. This is not good!
In part, I agree with you. Time is the biggest problem. All of us have lives outside the forum and putting something like that together correctly takes time. It is in the works and will be posted as soon as possible. In the meantime, we mods do have rules to go by but they need to be posted for everybody. There is nothing arbitrary in our actions, at least no more than in any human endaeavor.

I am honestly glad you are bringing up your points. It's better to get it out in the open instead of SMS and PM grumbling.

[Elana]

I know why mine got deleted...:D .

I thought it was hilarious...after I nearly jumped out of my skin I couldn't stop laughing, but some people clearly didn't appreciate being startled like that. No biggie though.
THE CAR ONE GOT DELETED?????
NO WAY!!!!!! WHY???

[Elana]

Bel...this is an example of one of the posts that was recently deleted in the humor section. I still have it because I emailed it to all of my friends. Can you please explain so that we are all on the same page, why something like this is not acceptable in the humor section?

http://www.stompfest.com/Misc/Vids/KFee_Auto.mpg (http://www.stompfest.com/Misc/Vids/KFee_Auto.mpg)

[Ash]

In part, I agree with you. Time is the biggest problem. All of us have lives outside the forum and putting something like that together correctly takes time. It is in the works and will be posted as soon as possible. In the meantime, we mods do have rules to go by but they need to be posted for everybody. There is nothing arbitrary in our actions, at least no more than in any human endaeavor.

I am honestly glad you are bringing up your points. It's better to get it out in the open instead of SMS and PM grumbling.

I'm glad you started the Thread too. Doc really started it with his Thread but it looks like more work needs to be done. I got a lot out of Doc's Thread but it seems like things have gotten worse since he posted it. At least deletion wise that's the way it seems. Like Elana's Car Thread post question. "WHY?". It looks to many here like the Mod's are turning up the Deletion machine full tilt and clamping down way, way, way too hard.

What does Bruce and the Mod's want this place to look like? Where are you going with all this? How much Rabble do you want to clear out and what do you think you're going to have left over once the dust settles?

[Elana]

I am not trying to come off as challenging or anything and I would have just PMed this to a mod, but since this thread has been started we may as well talk about it.

I simply want to understand what is allowed and what is not. Recently it was made clear how important it is to keep the main forum threads on track. I think that everyone has been really good about that since we all talked about it. Now we are seeing posts being deleted left and right and I am not even referring to the missing threads. Things like Exit's comment in the women's thread to deranged fox. That is typical Exit. He wasn't being mean. That is his demented way of flirting. When I first joined L-S Exit was here and he was the EXACT same Exit then that he is now. That was just an example. It's like we are expected to change how we were but we weren't even given the new rules. This is a forum that will get pretty racy because of the subject matter. Pheromones and sex. Do we have to be on rated G behavior with the exception of talking about sex and pheromones. I have no problem following rules...I just have to understand what the rules are.

[Ash]

I am not trying to come off as challenging or anything and I would have just PMed this to a mod, but since this thread has been started we may as well talk about it.

I simply want to understand what is allowed and what is not. Recently it was made clear how important it is to keep the main forum threads on track. I think that everyone has been really good about that since we all talked about it. Now we are seeing posts being deleted left and right and I am not even referring to the missing threads. Things like Exit's comment in the women's thread to deranged fox. That is typical Exit. He wasn't being mean. That is his demented way of flirting. When I first joined L-S Exit was here and he was the EXACT same Exit then that he is now. That was just an example. It's like we are expected to change how we were but we weren't even given the new rules. This is a forum that will get pretty racy because of the subject matter. Pheromones and sex. Do we have to be on rated G behavior with the exception of talking about sex and pheromones. I have no problem following rules...I just have to understand what the rules are.

I agree with Elana 100%. It's like there ARE some rules somewhere but they aren't visible to the people that are supposed to be following them.

[DrSmellThis]

Probably what is happening is that this thread is getting folks to focus more on getting rules together, which is a good thing. I know from talking to Bruce on the pherophone (:)) that he is genuinely in agreement with the need and is working on it, but that no one really anticipated this beforehand. Bruce is a good guy, and good guys generally have faith in things working themselves out. I've had posts deleted, but trust the mods and Bruce aren't doing it for random reasons. Sometimes posts are removed for discussion and further review and then added back after approval. This once happened to one of my sort of "outspoken" posts.

There is no question that post deletions have increased. Part of that seems due to the design of the new forum, which gives more efficient control capabilities to mods and admins, rather than any huge change of philosophy. But now is a time when "folks with erasers" are maybe extra sensitive due to the publicity these issues have "enjoyed" very recently. Now is also a time for discussion, such as is happening here.

In a way, I wish rules weren't necessary, in part because rules are often too strict, or on the other hand too easy to manipulate by the pathologically clever. But I think if rules are judiciously stated those potential problems can be minimized. Folks seem to like and deal well with clear and concrete expectations.

Elana brings up a good point about this being, to date, a sexuality and attraction discussion forum. These topics are inherently controversial and provocative! So good discussions of them require, on one hand, tolerance, outspokenness, and openmindedness; and on the other hand, a bit of emotional and interpersonal maturity. They are adult topics for a reason.

I personally would affirm the value of people being racy, frank, and non-PC in the proper context. My own tendency is to be outspoken and love it. IMHO, I don't think that such qualities put Bruce's income at risk. They could even help enhance it, given current pop culture standards. The more responsibility and maturity people exhibit on the front end, the more free they will be to talk about whatever their hearts desire and have it be appropriate. I believe where there is a will to do so, there is a way, and that no one should have to feel muzzled. Neither disagreements, pushed buttons, someone defending themselves, nor anger in posts are sufficient for rendering a post of negative value, IMO. Regarding my own desire to participate in any discussion situation, I don't believe censorship should be implemented in any case without thinking good and hard about it, without looking beneath the surface appearance of things, without thoughtful empathy for the speaker, or without putting one's immediate knee-jerk emotions on the back burner. But no one came here to take abuse or sabotage from anybody.

Ultimately, the best thing that can happen is that whatever Bruce's personal philosophy is regarding the forum will be accurately reflected in his guidelines to participation. As an interested and invested party, I would be more than happy to help in any way I can.

[DrSmellThis]

Hi everybody,

A few people have asked about posts that have vanished. There is nothing wrong with the forum, it is strictly the actions of either Bruce or one of the mods. If your's or somebody else's thread went away, it was for a good reason. Because of privacy concerns, we can't explain why in most casees and for that I am sorry. Those of you who know me know that I am very opposed to censorship and will not delete posts for political reasons. I don't even delete personal attacks directed at me. But there are times when we are going to delete posts. I apologize in advance if those posts are yours.

Belgareth
Bel, could you please expand a tad bit on what you mean by "privacy concerns"?

[Bruce]

Folks,

Ash SMSed me and asked me to get involved in this thread. I think I've exhausted what I consider good sense on this topic in the "misbehavin'" thread. Now I am just literally sick to death of reading "WTF happened to my post, man?" Why do I have to explain for the 15th time why "humor" involving baby seals being clubbed to death bothers me? Because there are a handful of folks who just plain do not get it. That's why. No matter how many times I explain it, they just don't get it. And not only that, those folks are offended by my sensitivity and have banded together in what they feel is a freedom of expression movement or something. Now, obviously I wouldn't last 5 minutes if this were a USNET group. I would be driven out of town on a rail, but hey, wait a minute, this is my home, isn't it? Why do I have to be intimidated? Why do I have to slink around in the shadows?

It is really too bad that it had to come to this. This should be a happy time for me. I have only told a few people about this, but my wife and I are expecting another baby. So here we are running around meeting with midwives collecting baby stuff from friends, and then I log on to my own forum and somebody has posted a photo of a child being beaten by a grown man and he things that is just a hoot. But wait that is not the best part. I delete it and then he freaks out, tells his buddies I am a geek and demands an explanation. And then the same thing happens again a few days later and again I am forced to explain why something disgusts me and again I get dissed for it, and the discussion runs around how I am a Nazi and finally one of you tries to win a few brownie points in the clique by "standing up to the man." And then comes the thinly veiled threat: "OK, Mr. Goody Goody, you want to get rid of us? Well, we'll all leave and then where will you be? All the fun sterilized out of your precious forum"

Why am I even waisting my time writing all this? Carefully thinking about what to say. You few folks don't get it do you? Reason doesn't mean anything to you, does it? Sensitivity, tenderness, love. They mean nothing to you, do they? All you understand is power; who has it, how you can get it yada yada.

Anyway, I want my life back. I want my forum back, and if that means there is nobody left to play with here but a few close friends, then so be it. I want at least a year to hang out with my beautiful pregnant wife and newborn baby when he/she gets here, without having to fear logging on to my forum. If any of the inevitable banees wants to discuss it, I am available by email, but if you have a name, you might want to use it.

Anyone who considers me a friend, you are welcome to stay of course, but I don't want to be having this conversation again for at least a year.

Very Sincerely Yours,
Bruce and family