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Bruce
09-08-2006, 08:43 AM
This quote on the nature of work is reputed to be over 3000 years old:

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What is work? What is beyond work? Even some seers see this not aright. I will teach thee the truth of pure work, and this truth shall make thee free.

Know, therefore what is work, and also know is wrong work. And know also of a work that is silence. Mysterious is the path of work.

The man who in his work finds silence, and who sees that silence is work, this man in truth sees the Light and in all his works finds peace.

He whose undertakings are free from anxious desire and fanciful thought, whose work is made pure in the fire of wisdom: he is called wise by those who see.

In whatever work he does such a man in truth has peace: he expects nothing, he relies on nothing, and ever has fullness of joy.

He has no vain hopes, he is the master of his soul, he surrenders all he has, only his body works: he is free from sin.

He is glad with whatever God gives him, and he has risen beyond the two contraries here below: he is without jealousy, and in success or in failure he is one: his works bind him not.

He has attained liberation: he is free from all bonds, his mind has found peace in wisdom, and his work is a holy sacrifice. The work of such a man is pure.

Who in all his work sees God, he in truth goes unto God: God is his worship, God is his offering, offered by God in the fire of God.

There are Yogis whose sacrifice is an offering to the gods, but others offer as a sacrifice their own soul in the fire of God.

In the fire of an inner harmony some surrender their senses in darkness: and in the fire of the senses some surrender their outer light.

Others sacrifice their breath of life and also the powers of life in the fire of an inner union lighted by a flash of vision.

And others, faithful to austere vows, offer their wealth as a sacrifice, or their penance, or their practice of Yoga, or their sacred studies, or their knowledge.

Some offer their out-flowing breath into the breath that flows in: and the in-flowing breath into the breath that flows out: they aim at pranayama, breath-harmony, and the flow of their breath is in peace.

Others, through practice of abstinence, offer their life into Life. All those know what is sacrifice, and through sacrifice purify their sins.

Neither this wold nor the world to come is for him who does not sacrifice: and those who enjoy what remains of the sacrifice go unto Brahman.

Thus in many ways men sacrifice, and in many ways they go to Brahman. Know that all sacrifice is holy work, and knowing this though shalt be free.

But greater than any earthly sacrifice is the sacrifice of sacred wisdom. For wisdom is in truth the end of all holy work.

Those who themselves have seen the Truth can be thy teachers of wisdom. Ask from them. bow unto them, be thou unto them a servant.

When wisdom is thine, Arjuna, never more shalt though be in confusion; for though shalt see all things in thy heart, and though shalt see thy heart in me.

And even if thou wert the greatest of sinners, with the help of the bark of wisdom though shalt cross the sea of evil.

Even as a burning fire burns all fuel into ashes, the fire of eternal wisdom burns into ashes all works.

Because there is nothing like wisdom which can make us pure on this Earth. The man who lives in self-harmony finds this truth in his soul.

He who has faith has wisdom, who lives in self-harmony whose faith is his life: and he who finds wisdom, soon finds the peace supreme.

But he who has no faith and no wisdom, whose soul is in doubt, is lost. For neither this world, not the world to come, nor joy is ever for the man who doubts.

He who makes pure his works by Yoga, who watches over his soul, and who by wisdom destroys his doubts, is free from the bondage of selfish work.

Kill therefore with the sword of wisdom the doubt born of ignorance that lies in thy heart. Be one in self-harmony, in Yoga, and arise, great warrior, arise.

-Krsna (from the Bhagavad Gita)

bronzie
09-08-2006, 08:25 PM
nice quote, do you know the origin of the word sin, as seen from the ancient roman perspective? its not something so bad and worthy of church punishment....not so much a church violation, but it means, "to take a miss" in something, meaning ' to fool ones self....'

Bruce
09-09-2006, 09:55 AM
"spirituality" by definition (of this forum anyway) should be "good for you" similar to the way vitamins are good for your body or herbs and reading are good for your mind, just at a more fundamental level. Churches and even entire religions may have their own agendas. There is a book called "Chicken soup for the Soul" or something like that. I've never read it, but I think the idea with a title like that was to break away from the unfortunate bad reputation that religious material has developed over the millennia, and offer people something that is "good for you" at a spiritual level as well as psychological or physical.

You know, when I was very young there was a huge taboo against all things psychological. They were considered something for "crazy" people. You couldn't even be caught reading a book that was good for your mind. Now that is all past us. Maybe some day we will get the confusion about religion sorted out.

B

belgareth
09-09-2006, 01:51 PM
Even that definition for spirituality is weak, Bruce. Having a limb amputated could be good for you under some circumstances. Here in N. Texas I deal with a lot of Southern Baptists and they tell me that accepting their savoir into my heart and asking for his forgiveness is good for me. In both cases, I'd really rather pass.

Could we define spirituality as something inside you that makes you feel good, supports you in times of need or adversity and inspires you to help others?? Would it be something that potentially brings out the best in a person?

From my perspective, religion is something external and could be considered a social function. Spirituality is internal and should be free of the guilt that mars so many of the ''great" religions.

Bruce
09-09-2006, 04:11 PM
When I made that post, I thought to myself "um... this could be asking for debate trouble" but live and learn. I'll be more careful next time.

Yeah, I would personally also like to avoid the arm-loss therapy if possible, but no doubt it could be "good for you" spiritually. You could force yourself to make the worst of it, but the next guy might be able to embrace it somehow and grow. History has born that out over and over.

Anyway, let's see if we can follow the golden rule I set up and not criticize others' ideas.

Peace, Love etc etc,
B

belgareth
09-09-2006, 04:16 PM
I wasn't trying to criticize, was trying to open the topic up to discussion. That's the best way I know to learn.

bronzie
09-09-2006, 05:33 PM
Spirituality? who defines it, where does it originate from? and what effect will it create in the person who is in a spiritual state? My guess it it depends on ones life experience, and often Spirituality is closely related if not inseperate to the psychological and the physical. People enter, what they call a religious state of mind, is that spirituality? many people say yes. Even though thier religious state was formed and taught to them by others. i.e all the major religions attempt to put people in spiritual religious sates of mind. They are easier to control as a mass, if they have one common ideology, kind of a social proof.

An example was Jim Jones, were the people in his presence in a religious or spiritual state? my guess is they were, to do what they did.

I personally believe, to find true spirituality, you need to detach from human influence, the modern world, and become a kind a hermit or monk. If anyone on this forum has been to a Place called Mt Athos, they willknow what im talking about. Prince Charles of England goes there every year for a few days, to find some solice in stressfull under spotlight existence.

Bruce
09-11-2006, 02:38 PM
Bel,

No harm done. Just a little worried about getting into a debate. Forums like this easily turn into arguments.

Peace and Love,
Bruce